Gene V Glass: Education in Two Worlds: A Citizen's Encounter With a Charter School

Gene V Glass: Education in Two Worlds: A Citizen's Encounter With a Charter School:

A Citizen's Encounter With a Charter School

I have on this blog exposed some of the unusual workings of Challenge charter school in Glendale, Arizona. In short, Greg Miller, who until recently, was Chairman of the Arizona State Board of Education. is the owner of Challenge charter school, from which he, his wife and his daughter draw more than $400,000 in salary annually. While this would set off conflict-of-interest alarms in nearly any other state in the Union, in Arizona it is simply business as usual. Last fall, the Arizona Governor decided he wanted to remove Miller from the State Board. Miller apparently could read the handwriting on the wall and he agreed to leave. As he walked out the door, Miller told the press that he agreed to quit if he got some assurances that the charter school he runs would get "political protections that I no longer could provide." He doesn't simply profit from his conflicts of interest, he's actually proud of them.

So when a parent recently contacted me about an incident of unprofessional treatment by the staff of Challenge charter school, I was not surprised. But that parent's experience should stand as a warning to other parents who consider doing business with the company known as Challenge Charter School: Arizona's First Official Core Knowledge School.

The parent speaks:The other day we had a horrific experience with Wendy and Pam Miller [the principal and board member, and Greg Miller's daughter and wife, respectively] at Challenge Charter School. We had never met them before but we were the first on the list in 2015 for Kindergarten open-enrollment. We completed all subsequent paperwork on-time.

However, last Friday my wife received a patronizing voicemail from Wendy Miller stating that she reviewed our March 2017 updated information form and compared it to our February 2017 updated information form and found a discrepancy. She then continued by saying she was so sorry but that we would need to start from the beginning and complete an entirely new open-enrollment

Gene V Glass: Education in Two Worlds: A Citizen's Encounter With a Charter School:

 

The non-policy reasons Trump alarms many educators - The Washington Post

The non-policy reasons Trump alarms many educators - The Washington Post:

The non-policy reasons Trump alarms many educators

Many educators have expressed deep concern about Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, a Michigan billionaire who was chosen despite having no experience in the world of education other than being an advocate for school choice. But educators are also alarmed with President Trump for reasons other than policy.

In this post, Mike Rose, a respected research professor in the UCLA Graduate School of Education and Information Studies, explains why Trump’s disregard for the truth, displays of historical ignorance and other behaviors are of such concern to many educators.

Rose is the author of books that include “The Mind at Work: Valuing the Intelligence of the American Worker,” which demonstrated the heavy cognitive demands of blue-collar and service work and what it takes to do such work well despite the tendency of many to underestimate and undervalue the intelligence involved in such work. Other books he has written include “Back to School: Why Everyone Deserves a Second Chance at Education,”“Possible Lives: The Promise of Public Education in America,”  and “Why School? Reclaiming Education for All of Us.” 

By Mike Rose

In his May 3 column in The Washington Post, conservative commentator George Will wrote a sentence that I can’t get out of my head. Will is trying to pinpoint what he sees as the “disability” that makes Donald Trump unfit to be president. “[T]he problem isn’t that he does not know this or that, or that he does not know that he does not know this or that. Rather, the dangerous thing is that he does not know what it is to know something.” I’m not typically in agreement with Will, but his insight here is, I think, stunning — diagnostically astute but also exceedingly relevant to those of us in education.

Knowing what it is to know something is a key concern in epistemology, that branch of philosophy dealing with the nature of knowledge and methods of analyzing knowledge. Epistemology can get pretty heady, and, to be honest, I quickly find myself in the weeds when I try to read deeply in it. But the general concerns of epistemology are central to The non-policy reasons Trump alarms many educators - The Washington Post:

Celebrating Fred Rogers | The Merrow Report

Celebrating Fred Rogers | The Merrow Report:

Celebrating Fred Rogers

Fifty years ago this week, Fred Rogers began appearing regularly on PBS, the beginning of a remarkable 34-year run that elevated and improved the lives of countless children, including my own.

(His signature program, “Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood,” first appeared on national PBS in February, 1968. New episodes appeared until August, 2001, and reruns through 2008. Even today some PBS stations run the series.  The forerunner, “Mister Rogers,” debuted on Canadian television in 1963.)

Twitter has been lighting up this week about Fred, particularly in light of the Manchester terrorist attack.  I think the best story came from @Breznican.  I suggest you search Twitter for his tale of meeting Fred.  Here’s one link.

I met Fred Rogers around 1980 under circumstances that still amaze me.  I had a weekly program on NPR, “Options in Education,” and we had just aired a two-part program about children with mental illness, contrasting what was provided privileged kids with what was offered to the less fortunate.

I described what happened in my forthcoming book, Addicted to Reform.

I interviewed Mary, who had been recommitted to a Texas state institution for older children for the third time.

Sometimes I feel so down at heart

I feel like I might fall apart

But then these words come back to me,

‘Just take your time, and you’ll be free.’

Mary wrote that song, which she sang for my tape recorder.  She talked about wanting to Celebrating Fred Rogers | The Merrow Report:

Fight for 6 NOT 540 Days of Testing – Education Town Hall Forum

Fight for 6 NOT 540 Days of Testing – Education Town Hall Forum:

Fight for 6 NOT 540 Days of Testing

Today’s students lose 540 days, equivalent to three school years, to standardized testing and test prep during their K-12 years, according to Dr. Jesse Turner’s calculations. Back when, standardized tests were rare — occurring roughly three times in a school career — and test prep was forbidden, understood as it was to skew results. Students then lost 6 days, not years. Jesse Turner tells the Education Town Hall the cost, in dollars and student experience, of this 540-day loss and discusses his “Fight for 6” campaign.

Segment begins at 10:14 —

The Education Town Hall broadcasts from Historic Anacostia
in Washington, DC, on We Act Radio, Thursdays at 11:00 a.m. Eastern
Listen live via TuneIn.
Shows are archived for convenient listening shortly after broadcast.

After years of weekly broadcasts, the program now focuses one show each month on local issues and one on “the BUS,” organized by BadAss Teachers, United Opt Out, and SOS March. Fight for 6 NOT 540 Days of Testing – Education Town Hall Forum:

On the BUS: Responding to the White House’s Education Budget

The White House’s proposed budget would cut public education by hundreds of millions, while giving money to voucher and charter programs. In addition, Denisha Jones tells the Education Town Hall, cuts in Medicaid and other programs will affect the ability of schools and families to educate, with many of the changes designed to enrich certain segments of the population at the expense of others. A large-scale effort to share concerns with staff and representatives, in the House and Senate, will be needed to change the budget proposal into a budget that protects the interests of young people.

Segment begins at 33:00 —

The Education Town Hall broadcasts from Historic Anacostia
in Washington, DC, on We Act Radio, Thursdays at 11:00 a.m. Eastern
Listen live via TuneIn.
Shows are archived for convenient listening shortly after broadcast.

After years of weekly broadcasts, the program now focuses one show each month on local issues and one on “the BUS,” organized by BadAss Teachers, United Opt Out, and SOS March. On the BUS: Responding to the White House’s Education Budget

Don't take a wrecking ball to our public schools - Lily's Blackboard

Don't take a wrecking ball to our public schools - Lily's Blackboard:

Don’t take a wrecking ball to our public schools

A budget isn’t just a spending plan, but a moral document that tells the world what you care about and what you don’t, what you respect or disregard, what you prize or disdain.

The Donald Trump-Betsy DeVos budget tells us everything we need to know about what they value. It is a wrecking ball, and it is aimed directly at our nation’s students and public schools.

This Robin Hood-in-reverse budget takes funding from neighborhood public schools and diverts it to voucher programs. It is yet another indication that the dangerous duo of Trump and DeVos cares little about America’s students, has no regard for public schools, and opposes the idea that all students—wherever they live—deserve the opportunity for the support, tools, and time to learn.

Given its embrace of voucher schemes and deep funding cuts, the Trump-DeVos spending plan—or rather, cutting plan—is a direct attack on the opportunities that we educators champion for each and every student. Trump and DeVos are proposing to slash billions of dollars from programs that are vital to student success.

 The budget they have proposed cuts deeply into funds for, among other things:

•  after-school programs;

• ·         college loans for low-income students;

• ·         arts education;

• ·         reductions in class size; and

• ·         professional development for educators.

It does not reflect the promise we make as educators to ensuring that every student has a quality education or our commitment as a nation to the values that define America. To borrow a phrase that meant little during the presidential campaign and means even less now, this budget will definitely not “make America great again.”

Education is hit hard (you can click here to see how the budget would affect students and particular programs in your state), but it’s not the only area that suffers. Cuts are planned for a variety of programs that help poor people and families who are struggling to make ends meet, including the modern-day food stamp program and Medicaid. (And by the way: Cuts to Medicaid would have a tremendous impact on special education.) Even Meals on Wheels isn’t safe in Trump’s hands. 

Trump also wants to cut programs that protect the environment and fund research on cancer and other diseases.

The budget is the latest example of why Americans have no confidence in Donald Trump or Betsy DeVos: Their priorities are reckless and wrong for students and working families.

One of these priorities, as we all know, is vouchers. DeVos—who is not an educator and never even attended a public school—has been fascinated with them for decades. She made Michigan’s students guinea pigs for her voucher schemes. The result has been the collapse of schools in some of the poorest communities, driven by for-profit operators.

You would hope DeVos might have learned something from her experiment. I mean, after all, in science classes, our Don't take a wrecking ball to our public schools - Lily's Blackboard:

 

5/25/2017 – Jeff Bryant Welcome to the Opportunity Network Update!

5/25/2017 – What Betsy DeVos Calls Education Transformation Is Actually Public Theft:

Jeff Bryant Welcome to the Opportunity Network Update!

 What Betsy DeVos Calls Education Transformation Is Actually Public Theft

May 25, 2017 Subscribe

THIS WEEK: DeVos Upholds Discrimination … Democrats Delivered DeVos … Voucher Evils … School Choice Scam … Taking To The Streets

TOP STORY

What Betsy DeVos Calls Education Transformation Is Actually Public Theft

By Jeff Bryant

“Betsy DeVos wants to give your tax dollars to private schools and businesses and tell you it’s an education ‘transformation.’ That’s the main theme of an address she gave this week to a conference held by the organization she helped found and lead, the American Federation for Children. Declaring ‘the time has expired for reform,’ she called instead for a ‘transformation … that will open up America’s closed and antiquated education system.’ Her plan also opens your wallet to new moochers of taxpayer dollars.”
Read more …

NEWS AND VIEWS

DeVos Won’t Say Whether She’d Withhold Federal Funds From Private Schools That Discriminate

The Washington Post

“Education Secretary Betsy DeVos refused to say Wednesday whether she would block private schools that discriminate against LGBT students from receiving federal dollars … Asked by Rep. Katherine M. Clark (D-Mass.) whether she could think of any circumstance in which the federal government should step in to stop federal dollars from going to private schools that discriminate against certain groups of students, DeVos did not directly answer. ‘We have to do something different than continuing a top-down, one-size-fits all approach,’ DeVos said.”
Read more …

Don’t Like Betsy DeVos? Blame The Democrats.

New Republic

Education historian Diane Ravitch writes, “Thirty years ago, there was a sharp difference between Republicans and Democrats on education. Republicans wanted choice, testing, and accountability. Democrats wanted equitable funding for needy districts and highly trained teachers. But in 1989, with Democrats reeling from three straight presidential losses, the lines began to blur … After George W. Bush made the ‘Texas miracle’ of improved schools a launching pad for the presidency, many Democrats swallowed his bogus claim that testing students every year had produced amazing results … Obama and Education Secretary Arne Duncan doubled down on testing, accountability, and choice … Trump and DeVos rely on the same language to tout their vision of reform. They’re essentially taking Obama’s formula one step further: expanding ‘choice’ to include vouchers.”
Read more …

Opening Pandora’s Box

Political Research Associates

“Polly Williams, the Wisconsin African American lawmaker behind the nation’s first school voucher program, believed vouchers could help students of color in urban Milwaukee. Conservative donors and right-wing think tanks saw her program as opening the door to the privatization of public education … But by the late 1990s, Williams had been pushed aside, just as she feared that students of color from low-income families would be pushed aside by the diverging agenda of her White conservative partners.”
Read more …

School Choice Is A Scam In Segregated Neighborhoods

The Chicago Reporter

Chicago community organizer Jitu Brown writes, “What [Betsy] DeVos fails to understand is the intentional structural racism that has been accepted by Democrats and Republicans, where children from black and brown communities are intentionally underserved by the system all citizens pay taxes into … DeVos has not yet learned that we, meaning black and brown families, don’t have the choice of great neighborhood schools within safe walking distance of our homes … The solution implemented by the same system that produces this inequity is to further diminish democracy and accountability to the public by privatizing what is a public good.”
Read more …

Fed Up With A Budget Crisis, Illinois Citizens Take To The Streets

The Progressive

Jeff Bryant writes, “A small group marching 200 miles from Chicago to the Illinois State Legislature in Springfield demand the passage of a new Illinois state budget … The marchers are demanding a People and Planet First Budget for Illinois that proposes $23.5 billion in new state spending … To pay for their demands, the marchers want corporate tax loopholes closed, taxes on higher income earners raised, and a LaSalle Tax that taxes financial transactions … State funding for education is a major sticking point in the legislative stalemate … The marchers’ call for increased financial support for public education in their state is relevant to the rest of the nation. State after state continues to withhold funding for public education to keep taxation on wealthy people and corporations at historic lows.”
Read more …

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5/25/2017 – What Betsy DeVos Calls Education Transformation Is Actually Public Theft:

National teachers union president blasts Martinez during state Capitol visit - The Santa Fe New Mexican Education

National teachers union president blasts Martinez during state Capitol visit - The Santa Fe New Mexican: Northern New Mexico Education:

National teachers union president blasts Martinez during state Capitol visit

The head of one of the country’s most powerful teachers unions came to Santa Fe on Wednesday and criticized Gov. Susana Martinez’s education policies as a “blame and shame” approach that demoralizes teachers and hurts efforts to improve public schools.

During a news conference at the Capitol less than an hour before the start of a special legislative session to balance the state budget, Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, likened Martinez and New Mexico Public Education Secretary Hanna Skandera to President Donald Trump. She said Martinez and Skandera, like Trump and U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos, want to destabilize and privatize public education.

She also blasted Trump’s proposal, announced earlier this week, to cut $11 billion from federal public education funding. That move “is cruel and callous and catastrophic,” Weingarten said.

Democratic lawmakers from both the Senate and House of Representatives surrounded her and pledged to hold firm against any additional cuts to public education.

Martinez vetoed all funding for the state’s higher education system earlier this year, partly in protest of the state Senate’s failure to hold confirmation hearings for two of her appointees to The University of New Mexico Board of Regents. But Martinez and Republican lawmakers have told The New Mexican they also intend to protect public school funding levels for the coming year.

Representatives for the governor and Skandera said Weingarten’s appearance at the Capitol, which came as the state Democratic Party held a march in support of National teachers union president blasts Martinez during state Capitol visit - The Santa Fe New Mexican: Northern New Mexico Education:

Jitu Brown: School Choice Is A Scam In Segregated Neighborhoods | PopularResistance.Org

School Choice Is A Scam In Segregated Neighborhoods | PopularResistance.Org:

School Choice Is A Scam In Segregated Neighborhoods

Above Photo: Photo by Marc Monaghan. Wendell Phillips Academy High School is a public school located in the Bronzeville neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago.

Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos seems not to hear the fierce protests of parents, teachers and school officials over school closings and charter expansion in New York, Chicago, Oakland, Detroit and other American cities. How else to explain her continuing tone-deaf comments praising the glories of school choice?  In truth, school choice does not exist in most black and brown communities in the United States. That is why her words ring false and her promises sound empty to the people living in those communities.

Whatever hope existed that DeVos would learn on the job and inform her boss, President Donald Trump, of the need to respect that history and build on the effectiveness of American public schools while improving them, has been dashed. During her confirmation hearings, DeVos was criticized for her lack of experience with and knowledge of the public education system.

Her later words at the Brookings Institution exemplified someone in a position of great power, who just does not get it: “How many of you got here today in an Uber, or Lyft, or another ridesharing service? Did you choose that because it was more convenient than hoping a taxi would drive by? Even if you didn’t use a ridesharing service, I’m sure most of you at least have the app on your phone. Just as the traditional taxi system revolted against ridesharing, so too does the education establishment feel threatened by the rise of school choice. In both cases, the entrenched status quo has resisted models that empower individuals.”

What DeVos fails to understand is the intentional structural racism that has been accepted by Democrats and Republicans, where children from black and brown communities are intentionally underserved by the system all citizens pay taxes into.

In Chicago, a child who goes to a neighborhood school near DePaul University enjoys a teacher’s aide in every class, robotics, debate teams, fully stocked libraries and after-school programs; while on the south side of the same city, in some schools there is one teacher’s aide in the building, with no library, no world language and 42 kindergarten students in one class.

In the historic Bronzeville community on the South Side of Chicago, simply to save Walter H. Dyett High School, our community’s last open enrollment neighborhood high school, I joined 11 other parents on a hunger strike for 34 days, from Aug. 17 through Sept. 24, 2015.

On the 25th day, Mayor Rahm Emanuel held a ribbon-cutting ceremony for a $21 million annex at Lincoln Elementary, a school with an upper-middle-class, white constituency in the upscale Lincoln Park community.  Today, Walter H. Dyett is open, serving School Choice Is A Scam In Segregated Neighborhoods | PopularResistance.Org:

Who Is Behind the Assault on Public Schools? | Howard Ryan | Monthly Review

Who Is Behind the Assault on Public Schools? | Howard Ryan | Monthly Review:

Who Is Behind the Assault on Public Schools?

Over the past three decades, public schools have been the target of a systematic assault and takeover by corporations and private foundations. The endeavor is called “school reform” by its advocates, while critics call it corporate school reform. Finnish educator Pasi Sahlberg has given it the vivid acronym GERM—the global education reform movement. Its basic features are familiar: high-stakes testing; standardized curricula; privatization; and deskilled, high-turnover faculty. In the United States, public schools have become increasingly segregated, destabilized, and defunded, with the hardest hit in low-income communities of color.

Nevertheless, while the political conflicts and social ramifications of the school reform phenomenon are well known, basic questions about the movement remain underexamined. Who really leads it? What are their aims and motives? After briefly taking up the statements of the reformers themselves, I will turn to the views of their progressive opponents, and offer a critique of three influential interpretations of the school reform movement. Finally, I will present my own theory about this movement, its drivers, and its underlying aims.

What the Corporate Reformers Say

The school reform movement presents itself as a collaboration among grassroots groups, business leaders, and private donors, united in an effort to improve education, foster a better economy, and help poor children escape poverty. Their goal is to “prepare America’s children for success in college and careers” (Barack Obama), “give low-income and minority students a world-class education” (Bill Gates), and help Americans “maintain our standard of living” (Eli Broad).1

For these reformers, high-stakes testing and teacher “accountability” are the defining metrics of success. George Shultz and Eric Hanushek of the conservative Hoover Institution at Stanford claim that if U.S. students raised their scores on the major international mathematics test by forty points over the next twenty years, the country could expect $70 trillion rise in GDP over the next eighty years. “That’s equivalent to an average 20% boost in income for every U.S. worker each year over his or her entire career.”2

A large body of research, however, challenges the merits of high-stakes testing and other elements of the corporate school reform package.3 It is also at least questionable whether the reformers really believe their own statements.

The reformers’ interest in school improvement appears, in a number of ways, to be less than genuine, to mask a different agenda. They prescribe models for mass education that they do not consider suitable for their own children.4 They sponsor think tanks to produce “junk research” praising their models, while ignoring studies that contradict their models.5 They insist that full resourcing of schools is unimportant or unrealistic, and that “great teachers” will succeed regardless of school conditions, class size, or professional training.

Progressive Interpretations

Critics on the left have done much to expose the hoax character of the school reform movement: documenting the destructive impact of school closures and privatization; showing how publishers, testing and technology companies, and real estate investors use the reforms Who Is Behind the Assault on Public Schools? | Howard Ryan | Monthly Review:

The End of the Neighborhood School - CityLab

The Problem of Geography in School Choice - CityLab:

The End of the Neighborhood School

Trump’s education budget aims to deliver a big boost to “school choice”—and siphon resources from urban schools in low-income areas.

Donald Trump’s proposed education budget aims to cut spending by 13.5 percent, or $9.2 billion, from the current $68.2 billion budget. It’s the biggest single-year cut a president has tried to make since Reagan attempted to gut the department in 1983. Targeted for the biggest hit: public schools. Specifically, after-school programs, teacher training, foreign languages, and the like would be slashed or eliminated.

Yet the budget gives public schools a way to make some cash: If local districts agree to allow open enrollment, in which parents, regardless of where they live, can send their children to any area public school, the districts will be awarded grants from a $1 billion initiative clunkily dubbed Furthering Options for Children to Unlock Success (FOCUS). When a child moves from one school to another, the local, state, and federal funds attached to them would follow.  

FOCUS reflects Education Secretary Betsy DeVos and her signature fixation on “school choice,” whereby students have the option to attend schools different than the one they are zoned for geographically. These schools may be public, including charter schools (as in the case of FOCUS), or they maybe be private schools, including religious schools. Trump and DeVos support supplying parents with vouchers to offset the costs of private schools; the White House budget ups the funding for charter schools and private school choice to the tune of $417 million.

While it’s almost guaranteed Congress won’t pass the budget, the big boost to school choice is a sign of how far the issue has come in the past 15 years, among both Republicans and Democrats. The Obama administration didn’t support private school vouchers, but it did promote charter schools. For instance, Obama’s 2009 Race to the Top program, a $4.35 billion grant that aims to spur and reward innovation in K-12 education, rewards states for allowing the growth of charter schools.

Students walk home from Briarwood Elementary, a traditional public school in Oklahoma City. (Rick Wilking/Reuters)

School-choice supporters tout it as a way for parents living in neighborhoods with low-performing schools to send their kids to better schools in low-poverty areas. It’s a strategy generally applied to urban contexts, as rural areas are more likely to have a single school that the community rallies around. And it’s on the rise across the country. “We still have neighborhood attendance zones, and most children in the U.S. attend traditional public schools,” says Matthew Chingos of the Urban Institute. “But 42 The Problem of Geography in School Choice - CityLab:

The Betsy DeVos School Choice Lie | deutsch29

The Betsy DeVos School Choice Lie | deutsch29:

The Betsy DeVos School Choice Lie

If you think that US ed sec Betsy DeVos wants anything other than to end American public education and replace it with an a-la-carte, private-school-favoring menu of largely underregulated school-like options, think again.

This, readers, is her single goal. And if you don’t agree with her, you are of limited intellect and capability.

Consider these excerpts, which she gave on May 22, 2017, as part of a speech to a pro-voucher group that she founded, the American Federation for Children (AFC):

We’ve had 30 years of “reform.”

And while we celebrate the progress that has been made, each year there are still far too many kids falling through the cracks.

The time has expired for “reform”. We need a transformation – a transformation that will open up America’s closed and antiquated education system.

If we really want to help students, then we need to focus everything about education on individual students – funding, supporting and investing in them. Not in buildings; not in systems.

It shouldn’t matter where a student learns so long as they are actually learning.

It shouldn’t matter if learning takes place in a traditional public school, a Catholic school, a charter school, a non-sectarian private school, a Jewish school, a home school, a magnet school, an online school, any customized combination of those schools – or in an educational setting yet to be developed. …

We must offer the widest number of quality options to every family and every child. Empowering parents with choices is how to give students second, third or fourth chances before it’s too late.

Even the most expensive, state-of-the-art, high-performing school will not be the perfect fit for every single child. Parents know – or can figure out – what learning environment is best for their child, and we must give them the right to choose where that may be.

But it’s not enough to promote choice simply for the sake of choice. That doesn’t serve kids. If a menu is full of bad options, then do you really have a choice at all?

The point is to provide quality options that serve students so each of them can grow. Every option should be held accountable, but they should be directly accountable to parents and communities, not to Washington, DC bureaucrats.

In order to succeed, education must commit to excellence and innovation to better meet the needs of individual students. Defenders of our current system have regularly been resistant to any meaningful change. In resisting, these “flat-earthers” have chilled creativity and stopped American kids from competing at the highest levels. Our current framework is a closed system that relies on one-size-fits-all solutions. We need an open system that envelopes choices and embraces the future.

DeVos tosses in words like “quality” and “accountable”; however, she also states time and again that regulation of her quality word salad “should be left up to the states”– which means that states can do whatever they wish because they get the ultimate choice in her school choice utopia.

And if you don’t agree, it isn’t because you could see some legitimate problem with The Betsy DeVos School Choice Lie | deutsch29: